Squeal BBQ

[ratcheese]

Good to know, but I'll say that Walker's is some of the best fine dining in the city. And by that I mean nothing more than it kicks ass.

Now you're talking BBQ!

kc, I've known Doug all my life and I've been either run out of, or threatened in, some pretty good bbq joints. Those people just didn't understand that nobody knows bbq like I do.

[crrush]

Good to know, but I'll say that Walker's is some of the best fine dining in the city. And by that I mean nothing more than it kicks ass. It is not like Vietnamese, which is all just a variation on pho. Smoked tongue planted firmly in braised cheek.

Walker's uses a Southern Pride cooker...and though I have eaten their cochon de lait poboys and ribs, my indoctrination into the world of real bbq makes it impossible for me to call it barbecue. Where there's gas...there's gas-cooked meat. But not barbecue. Wood and charcoal only. (Uber-purists might even say charcoal is a cheat in BBQ, but I use lump, so I reckon it passes.)

The Joint is my gold standard in N.O. for barbecue, although I hear Hillbilly might be all wood/charcoal, too.

RE: "Toothsome" -- the opposite of "meat jello"; requires teeth to eat. It's like 'al dente'/to the tooth. It's tender, but there's still some resistance to it. This is the issue I have with most competition barbecue and the whole concept of boiling, foiling or otherwise tinkering with the low-and-slow process.

[ratcheese]

Walker's uses a Southern Pride cooker...and though I have eaten their cochon de lait poboys and ribs, my indoctrination into the world of real bbq makes it impossible for me to call it barbecue. Where there's gas...there's gas-cooked meat. But not barbecue. Wood and charcoal only. (Uber-purists might even say charcoal is a cheat in BBQ, but I use lump, so I reckon it passes.)

The Joint is my gold standard in N.O. for barbecue, although I hear Hillbilly might be all wood/charcoal, too.

RE: "Toothsome" -- the opposite of "meat jello"; requires teeth to eat. It's like 'al dente'/to the tooth. It's tender, but there's still some resistance to it. This is the issue I have with most competition barbecue and the whole concept of boiling, foiling or otherwise tinkering with the low-and-slow process.

Careful with your gold standards and your issues such as BOILING...just saying

Why in the world would you have a problem with foiling? The inability to hold BBQ is what makes it such a tough commercial venture. If you don't know a few tricks of the trade, all you can do is stay open for two or three hours a day until you sell out of whatever you cooked. Which reminds me of the old saying, "The best way to hold BBQ is a 'SOLD OUT' sign".

But, foiling can not only prevent an overwhelming smoke flavor on the pit, it also tenderizes the meat without losing flavor like boiling does, if you know how to do it. I don't know why that would bother you. It helps expand the serving time.

[ratcheese]

The lack of a regional bbq style should not keep a food city like NO from having good Q. Here onthe northshore, I don't know of any good Q. there is passable Q, but nothing really good. I have been to hillbilly, but not the Joint or Walkers (I would like to go to both, but when I am in the city, to eat, I always go elsewhere).

I am considering a new venture that would be casual food, with a strong BBQ presence on the menu. I don't know if it is gonna come together, but I am working on it now.

The lack of a regional identity infers a lack of familiarity. Therefore, opening a Q joint here is not going to be the same as opening one in Austin, KC, St.Louis, Charlotte, etc., You open one in any of those places you just blow and go--you know the accepted parameters and you do your thing.

Here, you really have to focus on what your potential customers are going to go for because BBQ doesn't hold well--it has to be served fresh. Commercial BBQ is a different beast than backyard BBQ. There is a lot of timing involved in the cooking/serving process. Waste will kill you in no time if you don't know how to plan for your customer base.

Look at Hillbilly's menu--see the Chicken Salad--that's smart planning. That is how he is "holding" his unsold chicken.

Last week, I had lunch at a successful Q joint here in town, where I was served back ribs that had been boiled before they were placed on a smoker to create a bark but my guess is that they were also yesterday's ribs held over in the fridge--they were that ragged out. Now, it is possible they merely boiled and held them the day before, and then put a char on them before serving.

But all that really doesn't matter; what matters is that it is good or it is not. Too many short-cuts make for bad food but that is what happens if you cannot plan on a consistent clientèle.

I think it really forces you to focus the menu very, very tightly on a few high quality offerings in order to prevent excessive waste.

[crrush]

Why in the world would you have a problem with foiling? The inability to hold BBQ is what makes it such a tough commercial venture....

I should've been more clear about differentiating backyard barbecue versus commercial barbecue. Commercial ventures have to do all sorts of things to barbecue (and other foods) to remain profitable. That's alright. But backyard, I think foiling (like Raichlen's 3-2-1 method) is an unnecessary crutch. I realize not all people are hellbent on the authentic art-form, they just want a good rack of ribs. It's just not my preferred style.

But, foiling can not only prevent an overwhelming smoke flavor on the pit, it also tenderizes the meat without losing flavor like boiling does, if you know how to do it.

You can also prevent an overwhelming smoke flavor by not using too much wood. Again, what I've loved about learning how to bbq is...learning how to bbq. Of course it's about delicious, delicious spare ribs and pulled pork, but it's also about the learning curve for me. Yeah, you might learn a hard lesson by oversmoking a rack or three, but the next time, you'll use less wood. If you're always using foil, you never learn the nuances.

Oh, and if you need foil to tenderize those ribs...

[Turbodog]

The lack of a regional identity infers a lack of familiarity. Therefore, opening a Q joint here is not going to be the same as opening one in Austin, KC, St.Louis, Charlotte, etc., You open one in any of those places you just blow and go--you know the accepted parameters and you do your thing.

Here, you really have to focus on what your potential customers are going to go for because BBQ doesn't hold well--it has to be served fresh. Commercial BBQ is a different beast than backyard BBQ. There is a lot of timing involved in the cooking/serving process. Waste will kill you in no time if you don't know how to plan for your customer base.

Look at Hillbilly's menu--see the Chicken Salad--that's smart planning. That is how he is "holding" his unsold chicken.

Last week, I had lunch at a successful Q joint here in town, where I was served back ribs that had been boiled before they were placed on a smoker to create a bark but my guess is that they were also yesterday's ribs held over in the fridge--they were that ragged out. Now, it is possible they merely boiled and held them the day before, and then put a char on them before serving.

But all that really doesn't matter; what matters is that it is good or it is not. Too many short-cuts make for bad food but that is what happens if you cannot plan on a consistent clientèle.

I think it really forces you to focus the menu very, very tightly on a few high quality offerings in order to prevent excessive waste.

Good advice all around, Rat. Thanks. I do understand timing, food costs and lack of waste, are critical elements.

[ratcheese]

Good advice all around, Rat. Thanks. I do understand timing, food costs and lack of waste, are critical elements.

You are most welcome Turbo but that wasn't intended as advise, I was just bloviating.

I must admit though, it has been rewarding to see crrush's Q I Q grow along with this thread. Aside from an occasional rough spot, she seems to be coming along nicely.

I am still trying to figure out her last insinuation, however--she seemed to suggest that because I might be willing to go to the foil occasionally, I must be dealing in cheap meat or shoddy cooking methods or something...oh, well, I'll sleep on it and come up with some advice for Grasshopper tomorrow.

[Low-N-Slow]

Rat, always remember that foil is a tool, not a crutch (as they would have you believe about TX BBQ). It has its place when applied judiciously. With foil, you can variously achieve tender, FOTB (falling off the bone), and fell-off-the-bone (if you aren't paying attention). It all depends on what you want. Raichlen's 3-2-1, if one indeed wants to attribute that method to him, is better employed more like 3-.75-1 (and we're talking spares, not loin backs), if you want both tender and some tooth.

Also, crrush hasn't totally stepped out of her BBQ closet here yet. She's had a rather immersive exposure to the world of BBQ, courtesy of one of her Yankee friends while she's been away from da' bayou.

[ratcheese]

Rat, always remember that foil is a tool, not a crutch (as they would have you believe about TX BBQ). It has its place when applied judiciously. With foil, you can variously achieve tender, FOTB (falling off the bone), and fell-off-the-bone (if you aren't paying attention). It all depends on what you want. Raichlen's 3-2-1, if one indeed wants to attribute that method to him, is better employed more like 3-.75-1 (and we're talking spares, not loin backs), if you want both tender and some tooth.

Also, crrush hasn't totally stepped out of her BBQ closet here yet. She's had a rather immersive exposure to the world of BBQ, courtesy of one of her Yankee friends while she's been away from da' bayou.

Don't misunderstand me brother, I am not a purest when it comes to producing the best quality possible--its the end result that matters to me, that's all.

I don't know what Raichlen's 3-2-1 means, I just found out the other day who he was. I know I wish I could sell the number of books he has but I have no curiosity about reading them.

You don't have to tell me about crrush and the horrors she's been exposed to--I can picture Yankees and Webers and all sorts of BBQ perversions going on...ohhh...but I'm working on her.

[Low-N-Slow]

3-2-1 means a period of 2 hours in foil between 3 hours (to set some color) and one hour (to reconstitute bark) out of foil. Although it sounds good on paper ("3-2-1"), 2 hours in foil is way too much for spares, to say nothing of loin backs, at average pit temps of 250 -275°. There is a method for foiling loin backs for an extended period, but it requires strict adherance to a cooking temp of 225°.