View Full Version : Remember D.C. vs. Heller?
Pelican Six
07-17-2008, 04:08 PM
Dick Heller is the man who brought the lawsuit against the District's 32-year-old ban on handguns. He was among the first in line Thursday morning to apply for a handgun permit.
But when he tried to register his semi-automatic weapon, he says he was rejected. He says his gun has seven bullet clip. Heller says the City Council legislation allows weapons with fewer than eleven bullets in the clip. A spokesman for the DC Police says the gun was a bottom-loading weapon, and according to their interpretation, all bottom-loading guns are outlawed because they are grouped with machine guns.
Unbelievable. Not only that, but the D.C. City Council is still requiring guns in the home to be unloaded, disassembled or trigger-locked: provisions that the Supreme Court specifically ruled were unconstitutional. Talk about San Francisco on the Potomac. These council members should be clubbed to their knees with the butts of super scary assault rifles, along with Ray Nagin and his police chief for unconstitutionally disarming law-abiding citizens after Katrina and then defying a court order to return them.
I can't believe PeteV is actually moving there. Then again, like me, he probably has no plans to register his firearms.
All guns purchased in the USA are registered. I am an FFL and I am required to keep all of the forms filled out by purchasers until I close my business. After closing the business, the forms must be kept for twenty years by the feds. Welcome to your favorite dictatorship!
Pelican Six
07-17-2008, 04:31 PM
All guns purchased in the USA are registered. I am an FFL and I am required to keep all of the forms filled out by purchasers until I close my business. After closing the business, the forms must be kept for twenty years by the feds. Welcome to your favorite dictatorship!
No, they aren't. Car dealers are also required to maintain records of their sales. Private sellers of cars are not. But no matter who you buy your car from, you are going to have to register your car with the state.
If I buy a firearm from a private seller or an FFL dealer, I'm not going to have to take it down to City Hall like Dick Heller and beg for permission to exercise my constitutionally protected rights.
But your point that form 4473 is a de facto registration is well taken. Fortunately (at least for now) there is no federal repository where all these forms are kept.
However, real men have at least one firearm that nobody knows anything about. :)
Are you a local dealer?
Outrageous! My .380 is barely a deadly weapon and it loads from the bottom. It is so far from a machine it aint funny.
Pelican Six
07-17-2008, 05:57 PM
Outrageous! My .380 is barely a deadly weapon and it loads from the bottom. It is so far from a machine it aint funny.
I suppose if you accidentally swallowed it and choked to death, it could be deadly. ;)
Just kidding - even a .380 satisfies the First Rule of Gunfighting:
1. Have a gun.
But do you realize that even the sissiest .25 auto would qualify as a "machine gun" using D.C.'s standards?
I am in Houma. I am calling registration being required to acquire the buyer's name, address, phone number, social security number, driver's license or passport number, model of gun, make of gun, caliber of gun, serial number of gun as registration. The forms and information are held by the ATF. They get it when you go through the NICS process.
Pelican Six
07-18-2008, 01:02 PM
Having to keep your "bound book" and form 4473s available for inspection does not quite meet the definition of creating a centralized registry. During the D.C. sniper incident, the feds had to go from dealer to dealer in the area to look up transactions for all .223 rifles in the locale, which bore no fruit, because the weapon was stolen from a dealer in Tacoma, Washington. Only when they had the weapon in hand were they able to contact Bushmaster and find out what retailer bought the rifle.
According to federal law, NICS checks for approved transfers must be destroyed within 24 hours. And the money quote:
(3) Limitation on use. The NICS, including
the NICS Audit Log, may not
be used by any Department, agency, officer,
or employee of the United States
to establish any system for the registration
of firearms, firearm owners,
or firearm transactions or dispositions,
except with respect to persons prohibited
from receiving a firearm by 18
U.S.C. 922(g) or (n) or by state law. The
NICS Audit Log will be monitored and
reviewed on a regular basis to detect
any possible misuse of NICS data.
I understand that the record-keeping requirements for the form 4473s are an attempt by the BATFE to create a de facto gun registration, but it is far from complete, decentralized and amounts to looking for a needle in a haystack. Plus, it only applies to retail transactions, not transactions between private individuals.
There are a tremendous amount of unknown needles in that already humongous haystack. I own some of them for the very reason that it is no one's damn business what I'm packing. And since Louisiana has no gun registration requirements, it makes it one of the several states I would be comfortable living in.
A lot of things fall under "according to federal law" that are done very commonly. Are you saying that no weapons were taken from citizens after the storms? You must have special phones lines and email routing if your messages are not being monitored by the feds. Reality sneaks in here in regards to what the feds actually do as compared to what is legal for them to do. The gun transfer records are not destroyed. I have been contacted by the feds in regards to certain gun transfers, where they knew all of the information that I previously listed, years after the sale. If I am the only one with that information on file, then how did they have it to read to me over the phone?
Pelican Six
07-18-2008, 02:42 PM
A lot of things fall under "according to federal law" that are done very commonly.
I acknowledged that. Twice.
Are you saying that no weapons were taken from citizens after the storms?
I specifically covered that in my first post.
You must have special phones lines and email routing if your messages are not being monitored by the feds.
And a tinfoil hat to keep out the CIA mind-control rays, which I wear to keep them from locating me and dispatching their cyborg ninja battle-monkeys to kill me for daring to speak out against The Man. :rolleyes:
I have been contacted by the feds in regards to certain gun transfers, where they knew all of the information that I previously listed, years after the sale. If I am the only one with that information on file, then how did they have it to read to me over the phone?
I don't know. Seems like it would have been a perfect opportunity to ask while you were on the phone with them.
No need to get defensive. I am just stating facts. The feds keep those records. It is not a good idea to ask them questions! They are usually very rude over the phone when they call. What was all the fuss about with the internet companies turning over private emails to the feds? I must have missed the issue there. Never tried the foil hat yet, but who knows, it may work!
Only Quest refused to wiretap w/o warrants or FISA court knowledge.
"Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm
No need to get defensive. I am just stating facts. The feds keep those records. It is not a good idea to ask them questions! They are usually very rude over the phone when they call. What was all the fuss about with the internet companies turning over private emails to the feds? I must have missed the issue there. Never tried the foil hat yet, but who knows, it may work!
In case y'all have not heard, Jennings & Rall has crated a new device in order to penatrate tinfoil hats. Just a heads up. I think the old steel Army helmets are the way to go.
I will try to contact that actress that used to be on "Eight is Enough." She may be able to give us the definitive answer on this one!
Dilfan
07-18-2008, 03:57 PM
In case y'all have not heard, Jennings & Rall has crated a new device in order to penatrate tinfoil hats. Just a heads up. I think the old steel Army helmets are the way to go.
Yea, but the old steel helmets were what THEY used in those mind control experiments in the late 40s and early 50's. I think I would have to suggest the new Kevlar helmets, spray the inside with the chrome paint from an auto parts store, and cover the outside with the new foil that doesn't stick (of course, that means you have to use duct tape over all of the foil to cut the reflectability, but that's okay, because as Carl Zwanzig said: "Duct tape is like The Force — it has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together."
Yea, but the old steel helmets were what THEY used in those mind control experiments in the late 40s and early 50's. I think I would have to suggest the new Kevlar helmets, spray the inside with the chrome paint from an auto parts store, and cover the outside with the new foil that doesn't stick (of course, that means you have to use duct tape over all of the foil to cut the reflectability, but that's okay, because as Carl Zwanzig said: "Duct tape is like The Force — it has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together."
Hmm - food for thought. I hate those frakkin' kevlar helmets, but... duct tape works miracles.
I may try half of a watermelon rind. I have heard rumors......................
Last Sunday I was shooting my friends CETME rifle - talk about a cannon! I wonder what they would if one tried to register that in D.C. - LOL
DC is gonna get smacked around by SCOTUS again before this is all over.
Pelican Six
07-18-2008, 05:13 PM
Why can't more states be like Vermont - unlimited concealed or open carry?
I'd love to stroll down Magazine Street with my stainless 7.5" Ruger Vaquero .44 strapped to my leg. While wearing my "For Every Animal You Don't Eat, I'm Going to Eat Three" tshirt.
Make my day, hippies.
Dilfan
07-18-2008, 05:18 PM
Why can't more states be like Vermont - unlimited concealed or open carry?
The problem with that is law abiding citizens would then be able to defend themselves from the criminal element that now controls New Orleans, and after a week or two of that, NOPD would be out of a job!
The problem with that is law abiding citizens would then be able to defend themselves from the criminal element that now controls New Orleans, and after a week or two of that, NOPD would be out of a job!
LOL - how true!
Why can't more states be like Vermont - unlimited concealed or open carry?
I'd love to stroll down Magazine Street with my stainless 7.5" Ruger Vaquero .44 strapped to my leg. While wearing my "For Every Animal You Don't Eat, I'm Going to Eat Three" tshirt.
Make my day, hippies.
Vermont does not have a pro-crime majority walking it's streets.
Oyster
07-19-2008, 02:48 PM
In the form an old poster on TOB used to say:
Man, I like to use the camo duct tape, man.
T. Slob
07-19-2008, 02:52 PM
Why can't more states be like Vermont - unlimited concealed or open carry?
I'd love to stroll down Magazine Street with my stainless 7.5" Ruger Vaquero .44 strapped to my leg. While wearing my "For Every Animal You Don't Eat, I'm Going to Eat Three" tshirt.
Make my day, hippies.
I for one would support any legislation that would more easily allow you to put your pettiness and insecurities on display.
Pelican Six
07-19-2008, 05:56 PM
Now, don't go all surly on me, snookums.
T. Slob
07-19-2008, 06:57 PM
Me? Surly? Nah, I'm just a straight shooter who speaks my mind, like Ronald Reagan or Jesus.
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